To All Catholics
After heraing about this I can not help but post this.
First of all I understand that the majority of Catholic priests are good people who do not abuse children but the Catholic church enables these abusers of children by 1. Not doing anything to stop it. 2. Often moving abusers of children around giving them new victims. 3. Not kicking them out of the priesthood. And 4. Not turning them into the authority’s. The Catholic church has shown it true colors, it does not give a shit about the children being abused, it does not give a shit about Yahweh and it does not give a shit about you. The Catholic church is nothing but a power structure to control people and get tithes.
How, how can you still be Catholic? Given all the Catholic church has done (and not done), how can you still be Catholic. Please answer this.
© 2009 All rights reserved
I can be Catholic for all the good the Church has done. You have to remember why the Church is holy. Not because of any saint, or pope, or priest, not even Mother Theresa makes the church holy. She is holy because of Christ. Men are evil and fallen. They do things wrong. But Christ is holy and always will be.
The church has done little good in comparison to the bad it has done and non-religious organisations can and do do just as much good.
Why would an organisation that is “holy” not only allow its member to molest and abuse children but protect abusers of children?
Not true! With God’s grace, we started hospitals to care for the sick. We establish orphanages, and help the poor. We are the largest charitable organization on the planet, bringing relief and comfort to those in need. We educate more children than any other scholarly or religious institution. We developed the scientific method and laws of evidence. We founded the college system. We defend the dignity of all human life,and uphold marriage and family. Guided by the Holy Spirit, we compiled the Bible. For centuries, we have prayed for you and our world, every hour of every day, whenever we celebrate the mass. For over 2,000 years, we have had an unbroken line of shepherds guiding the Catholic Church with love and truth, in a confused and hurting world. And in this world filled with chaos, hardship and pain, it’s comforting to know that some things remain consistent, true, and strong, our Catholic faith, and the eternal love that God has for all creation.
Have men done bad things and made mistakes? Most certainly! Is the Church to be held to a higher standard? Absolutely. But the Church has done much more good than harm.
If you don’t believe it, show me otherwise.
—-
The Church is holy because of Jesus. You should never deny Peter because of Judas. Jesus knew what Judas was going to do before he did it, and still he was included in the apostles. Peter and all the apostles were sinners, too. So despite humanity, the Church is holy.
You think that, when all this was happening, that the priests were asking some authority for permission to do it? The Church didn’t “allow” anything, although they are not doing enough to repair it.
Lots of Americans think Disneyworld is a gay-friendly place because the ‘allow’ Gay Pride nights and weekends. Truth is, they don’t allow it, they just accept admission. That people wear shirts saying ‘2009 Gay Pride night at Disneyworld’ in no way means that Disney sanctioned the event. In the same way, the Church didn’t sanction the event. In fact, if you look closely, you will find that they tried to handle it internally, even though they did a poor job of it.
So have many religius and non-religius orgnasations.
Really? Where did you get that?
Individual govermints do more for education.
Wrong. The scientific method was developed by people seeking a better understanding of the natural world though empirical evedence. The Catholic church impeded this not helped.
Wikipedia-History of science
Nope, read a history book.
What is there to uphold?
Really? Making people wait to get married before they have sex or even move in together leads to bad marriages and forcing people who do not get along to stay married keeps people in bad marriages and bad marriages are bad for the children of people in bad marriages.
By the why Jesus was anti-family
That was done before the Catholic church
And people in other religions haven’t?
The Catholic Church is not 2,000 years old. Read a history book, please.
You don’t know what chaos hardship and pain is. Look at a third world country where people are starving and living under aprasive governments.
The Crusades killing of thousands of men woman and children, the inquisition killing tens pf thousand to million of innocent man and woman, apposing of contraceptives which can prevent the spreading of STDs (saving countless lives) and preventing unwanted pregnancy, the spreading homophobia, the spreading of anti-semitism, the protection of priests who abuse children and taking donations from millions around the word and where do think the majority of that money goes?
Jesus did not give any power or authority to the Catholic church.
The Catholic Church protected priests who abused children! It did not try and stop them, it did not kick them out of the priesthood, it did not inform the authority’s. Instead it did to stop them and and moved them from parish to parish. It protected evil priests! Not only that but at least one of the individuals who protected pedophile priests was promoted after the scandal broke out.
The first hospital used for caring for the sick was in AD 300 by the Irish-Catholic. The hospital as a place of care for the sick developed methods of caring for the sick in the Catholic Church. Others saw it as a good idea and borrowed it.
Catholic Charities http://www.forbes.com/lists/2005/14/Revenue_1.html, among others.
Copernicus, Kepler, Galilei, Tycho Brahe, Newton,
Huyghens, Boyle, Haller, Mariotte, the Bernoullis, Euler, Linné were akll Catholic, some priests. The method was developed by Catholics in monasteries. Tell me, please, how the Church impeded science?
Also prove that the Church is against dignity of all human life.
Waiting until marriage to have sex does one thing-it makes you get to know the other person’s mind without clouding it with feel-good sex. Also, if pre-marital sex and cohabitation before marriage are so good, why has the divorce rate risen, rather than decreased since it’s become commonplace? And why is there so much more violence in the home now?
Your biblical sources do not say that Jesus was anti-family. You need to learn to read in context.
Any proof that the bible came before the Church? Jesus instituted the Church, the apostles wrote the books, and they were compiled and validated. The Church came before the bible, not the other way around. Also, if you think the Catholic Church isn’t 2000 years old, show sources and prove it.
Every hour of every day since Pentecost, mass has been said somewhere in the world-for 2000+ years. This is what’s meant by praying for the world every hour of every day. No Church has been around since Jesus instituted the Catholic Church, so we validate this claim.
Regarding the Crusades, please cite sources as to death toll? As to human dignity, the Crusades were held to uphold and defend human dignity, Europeans’ human dignity. The Muslims had to invade Spain and North Africa first, and kill thousands and occupy territory for 4oo years before the first crusade was ever held.
Regarding the inquisition, there were two major Inquisitions, the Medieval Inquisition and Spanish Inquisition. Although there are no exact numbers, scholars believe they have estimated Inquisition deaths reasonably accurately. There were not as many deaths as the popular press claims. Numbers have often been inflated to as high as 9 million by the popular press, with absolutely no scholarly research. This figure is completely erroneous. A broad range of scholars, many of whom were not Catholic, have carefully studied the Inquisitions. They looked at all the existing records and were able to extrapolate. In the Medieval Inquisition, Bernard Gui was one of the most notorious of the medieval inquisitors. (so much so that the sick modern pornography industry has turned him into a hero). He tried 930 people out of which 42 were executed (4.5%). Another famous Inquisitor was Jacques Fournier who tried 114 cases of which 5 were executed (4.3%). Using numbers that are known, scholars have been able to surmise that approximately 2,000 people died in the Medieval Inquisition. (1231-1400 AD). During the high point of the Spanish Inquisition from 1478-1530 AD, scholars found that approximately 1,500-2,000 people were found guilty. From that point forward, there are exact records available of all “guilty” sentences which amounted to 775 executions. In the full 200 years of the Spanish Inquisition, less than 1% of the population had any contact with it, people outside of the major cities didn’t even know about it. The Inquisition was not applied to Jews or Moslems, unless they were baptised as Christians.
If we add the figures, we find that the entire Inquisition of 500 years, caused about 6,000 deaths. These atrocities are completely inexcusable. These numbers are however, a far cry from the those used in the popular press by people who are always looking to destroy the Church.
Regarding opposing contraceptives, they are by and large not for stopping STDs, but for stopping pregnancy. There’s only one absolutely sure way to stop STDs-stop having sex. This method also stops unwanted pregnancy 100%. Regarding homophobia, we’re not against gay people, we’re against sin. Homosexual sex is a sin. Name your basis for anti-semitism. There have been periods when we took a hard line because Jews killed Jesus, but we’ve spent a lot of time saving Jews too, especially during WWII. Regarding the priest scandal, the hierarchy of the church treated the people according to what the rest of the world was doing at the time. It’s great to look back and shake your finger and your fist, but hind-sight is always 20/20. I’d like you to answer your own question about where the money goes, given that the Church is the largest charitible organization in the world.
I keep saying and will keep saying the people in the church and the people who run the church are human and sinners just like you and me. The church is holy because of Christ, not because of those who are in the church. The Church is a hospital for sinners, not a country club for saints. That’s heaven.
Lone Wolf,
I understand very much your feelings, and sometimes I ask myself the same question. For me it is because of Jesus as we believe He is truly in the Bread and Wine once it is consecrated to God. That is what Mass is all about for us, and the Catholic Church is the only one which has this. For me it is all about how we believe and worship Christ.
Things that have happened are horrible, detestable, and one cannot comprehend how things like this happen, but they do. It is not only the Catholic Church who is having these problems.
David was right, there is also a lot of good and good people in the Church, yet this still does not excuse what has happened at all. It may seem as if the Church does not care, and sometimes I wonder how it justifies moving a Priest they know is doing this. The one truth I do know, is God does care, and there are many Priest, Bishops, Popes, and the members of the Church that care. There have been many more good Popes than bad ones, but as it is with nature one bad apple tends to spoil the whole thing. (I am not saying it was just one Priest or nun as I know there have been many)
All we can do is stand firm in our faith, and pray that a healing for the abused is greater than the hurt. I have to believe that God will heal them beyond their hurt.
Your questions though are very valid and I will not dispute them at all. It is horrible and there are many of us who feel it is horrible, yet when it comes to our worship, that is about Jesus, and as for me, I have to seperate the two. I know this is breaking the heart of Jesus in pieces also.
This is the only way I can explain it, when I speak of God’s love for us, I say, “Jesus.” When I speak of sin, I say, “satan.” That is truly the only answer I have.
God Bless
I have started a petition in relation to this matter and would encourage everybody to sign it, click on the link below;
http://www.petitions.ie/CORI compensation review/
1. Don’t believe everything you read in Wikipedia. For a more official view, http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07480a.htm.
2. Virtually all charities with Catholic in the name are being run by the Catholic Church. And what the Church doesn’t have to give in financial aid, they give in service. Witness Mother Theresa and her sisters in India and all over the world. BTW, every Catholic charity runs on a shoestring, unlike the Red Cross and United Way. Why? Because most of the people who administer it are unpaid. http://www.catholic.net/index.php?option=channel&canal=Charity&id=4&grupo=Lifestyle if you want to see a larger, though still partial, list of charities. Did you know that every Catholic parish is a charitable organization?
3. Many of those I listed were not just Catholics, but were priests. The Church has never fostered hindrance of scientific exploration. Show where it has.
4. Respect for human life.
5. How many marriages where the individuals waited until marriage to have sex ended in 50-year anniversaries being celebrated? You seem to think marriage is a secular institution, but it is more a religious institution.
6. Research crime rates for domestic violence.
7. Until you gain the whole picture.
8. There is only one Catholic Church, the one founded by Christ and entrusted to Peter and the apostles.
9. The crusades were about protecting the Christians living in the Holy Land, their lives, their dignity. And happened after waiting for the Muslims to settle down after 400 years of invasion.
10. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_people_died_from_the_Inquisition
11. What’s wrong with stopping pregnancy? When the replacement rate drops below sustainable, as is happening in Spain and many countries in Europe, answer your own question.
I think we now see your problem. You think humans are animals. They are not.
12. The rights homosexuals want are not something the Church can give. They already have all human rights available. What rights would you like them to have?
13. Romans would not have killed Jesus if the Jews had not demanded it. Pilate gave them chance after chance to stop it.
14. The Pope himself, the embodiment of the Church, and nearly every monastery in Italy, harbored Jews and assisted them. By the way, every priest, from the lowest to the highest IS “the Church”.
15. Unquestionably bishops made mistakes. Nevertheless, media reports frequently painted the bishops’ actions and motives in the worst possible light. That some priests were assigned to new parishes was widely reported as the deliberate, systematic enabling of continued abuse. In fact, in many such cases psychological “experts” had assured bishops-in keeping with the thinking of the time-that the priests in question had been treated successfully, and they presented no further danger. Subsequent wisdom is that such sexual disorders are far too deep-seated to be cured by a month’s stay at a treatment facility. The Christian call to forgiveness and to giving someone a second chance following conversion from even grave sin also played a role.
16. The Catholic Church is a worldwide organization created and chartered by Jesus Christ to help every human being that is and was ever created get to heaven. And the Church today does represent the Church of 2000 years ago, but more grown up. Like an acorn grows into a centuries-old oak tree.
Sorry I’m taking so long to reply, I’ve been busy. I’ll reply as soon as I can.
Busy here, too, as attested by the timestamp on this reply.
It is not academically advisable to reference wikipedia as many items may not be verified. As you learn in college, it is best to refer to scholarly journals because not only are they verified but it looks like you actually know what you’re talking about rather than refering to “the hillbilly bible”. Thanks.
I’m adding numbers to make this easer for us and others.
1. According to Wikipidia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospital#History
Wikipidias source: Roderick E. McGrew, Encyclopedia of Medical History (Macmillan 1985), pp.134-5.
2.
1. I only found 1 maybe 2 Catholic charity’s on there. 2. I’m talking about the organisation of the Catholic church not people who identify themselves as catholic or the catholic religion.
3.
Again, the Catholic Church, the organation not Catholics.
4.
Define “dignity of all human life”.
5.
Dead wrong. People who wate until marriage to have sex and to move in together know less about their spouse when they get married. They do not know what their partner is like in bed and they do not know their partners habits. How many people have married only to find out that sexually they are incompatible and they can’t stand each other? That could have been solved if they had had sex and moved in together, they would have realised that they are not compatible, move on and found some one they are compatible with.
6.
The divorce rate has risen because it has become more acceptable and humans are not monogamies creatures. Where did you get your statistics on violence in the home? I looked, I could not find anything that has statistic of domestic violence between between the 1950s and 2000. But I did find this.
By the way, read this, you’ll find it interesting
7.
Why do you people always use that bad argument yet you never try to prove it by showing the context? How many verses before and after a quoted verse(s) do I have to read to put it in context?
8
That Catholic church was NOT started by Jesus. The Catholic church didn’t start until after one version of early Christianity became dominant, legalised, institutionalise in the roman empire and the organisation of the Catholic Church formed.
9
First of all the crusades had nothing to do with human dignity (as if such a thing exists) it was about one thing, killing the infidels. and thy did, Muslims and Jews, men woman and children. By the way, the Muslims were more accepting of Jews and Christin’s because they were “people of the book” (of course that was before Islam was fucked up by fundies creating modern Islam).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusade
I know its wikipidia so always check teh sources
10
I didn’t give any real numbers. Real numbers impossable to know, we only have estimations.
What is your souce?
11
1. Whats wrong with preventing pregnancy? 2. Condoms stop aids and many other STDs. People are animals, people have instincts, people are are going to have sex. The Catholics Church’s’ stance on contraceptives is dangerous and is only going to cause STDs to spread.
12
Then why is the Church against giving homosexual the rights they deserve?
13.
The Jews did not kill Jesus, the romans did! The idea that the Jews killed Jesus has been a big part of the anti-semitism. And thats not the end of it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_antisemitism#The_Middle_Ages
14.
Yes, Catholics (well some, some also helped the Nazis and some were just indifferent) But I’m not talking about Catholics, I’m talking about the Church.
15.